Tuesday, May 09, 2006

Science Corner

"If religion was based on scientific evidence, it would be called 'science.' And no one would believe it." -- Stephen Colbert

"God doesn't learn anything from experience, does He, or how could He hope anything of man? It's the scientists who add the digits and make the same sum who cause the trouble. Newton discovering gravity -- he learned from experience and after that... [i]t was only a matter of time before Lord Rutheford went and split the atom. He had learned from experience, too, and so did the men of Hiroshima." -- Graham Greene, Our Man In Havana

"No job too dirty for a fucking scientist." -- William S. Burroughs, The Western Lands


superman_death

29 comments:

spysmasher said...

So you hate God, as well as hating Bush?

Who do you hate more?

Do you ever wonder why hating and mocking others is the most important thing in your life?

What shall be your epitaph?

"He wrote comics, and hated both Bush and God"?

What a waste of life.

Jason said...

He's already had it designed, actually.

See?

Jason said...

Poking around the internet and I found your design, too, Mr. Smasher.

Check it.

Superfrankenstein said...

Jason,

You're great.

Hoosier X said...

Does Spice base any of his beliefs on things that actually happened?

Anonymous said...

"What a waste of life."

Perhaps, Mr. Spysmasher, you'd feel better if everyone who didn't think like you could be herded into a large gas chamber and disposed of in an efficient manner?

I'm sure God would agree with your views on the value of life.

Sleestak said...

Awwwww....don't waste your hate on a fictional deity or a fictional President.

Jersey Shore said...

The Adventures of SPYSMASHER!

"I did it! At last I've finally killed God! Not a sign of life in him . . . his body is turning pink from liberal poisoning! Cry your hearts out, folks! And eat your eyes out, too!"

PERRY:
"Great Caesar's ghost! Supefrankenstein has finally done what no one else has ever been able to do! CHOKE! I can't really believe God is dead! Killed by a Ray of Reason!"

JIMMY:
"Jeepers! How ironic, especially after God survived that gunshot wound to the face when he was hunting with Dick Cheney last month!"

LOIS:
"Now we'll never find out God's secret identy! Was it Jesus? Mohammed? Thor?"

Featuring a great three-part IMAGINARY novel . . .
"The DEATH of GOD!"

See what happens when God dies!

It won't be pretty, folks!

The democrats will return to power and the Constitution will reintroduced!

El Duque said...

Watch out, Superfrankenstein, because Spysmasher has set you up with a sinister trick question:
Do you hate God more than you hate Bush?

Whatever you say will get you in trouble, because as we all know, God talks to Bush.

Superfrankenstein said...

Duque, saying I hate Bush and God is like saying I hate Clark Kent and Superman.

Think about it.

Whenever there's an act of God (i.e. Katrina) Bush disappears and doesn't show up 'til it's all over. You never see them together.

And they're the only two people who aren't bound by federal law.

Anonymous said...

Actually I'm pretty sure Ricardo Montalban is also not bound by federal law.

The Retropolitan said...

Well, he sure didn't seem to care about the Prime Directive.

spysmasher said...

So, based on your responses, I'd say that God, like everything else, is a big joke to you people. Trouble is, one day tragedy will strike your life, and you will need God.

You like to mock God... but what would happen if God were to mock YOU?

One day we will all die. Thinking about an afterlife might make a good discussion at Starbuck's tonight -- an interesting change of pace from "Why Bush Sucks Today."

The Retropolitan said...

Well, I'll be the first to admit it: God is a joke to me. So is Santa, so he shouldn't be lonely.

And, for the record, who the fuck are you to decide whether or not I've experienced great tragedy in my life thus far? One day, my ass.

spysmasher said...

The person to whom God is "a joke" is a sad and sorry person indeed. That alone is a tragedy. I guess it's the complete liberal package: God doesn't exist, all authority (especially Bush!) "sucks," so just do whatever you want to do, whenever you want to do it, expecting no consequences, accepting no responsibility. I'd say "God help you," but...

Not.Fanatical said...

Yes. Only conservatives are religious. Only conservatives believe in God. Only conservatives are going to Heaven. Everyone else will burn in Hell.

The Retropolitan said...

Actually, not believing in God means that I do accept the consequences and responsibility, since there's no deity to blame or thank. There's no "mysterious ways." There's no power of Christ to compel me.

Spysmasher, perhaps one day tragedy will strike your life, and you will realize that there's no one up in the sky.

Except Green Lantern.

spysmasher said...

"Only conservatives are religious. Only conservatives believe in God. Only conservatives are going to Heaven. Everyone else will burn in Hell."

He said God was a joke.

I think that's somewhat anti-religion, don't you?

spysmasher said...

"Actually, not believing in God means that I do accept the consequences and responsibility, since there's no deity to blame or thank."

Yes. Also no rules except those YOU recognize.

How wonderful of you to accept your own rules!

The Retropolitan said...

Hey, my rules aren't in a vaccuum. But they are connected to real-life ethics and philosophy.

I dunno what to tell you, Spysmasher. You'd better check your hypocritical several-thousand-year-old book of fiction for advice. Or maybe write a letter to your favorite conservative senator to ask the best way to round up people that think for themselves. You know we're just all sitting here, waiting for a noble missionary to bring the Lord back into our miserable, failed lives. Get to it!

spysmasher said...

Retropolitian said: Hey, my rules aren't in a vacuum. But they are connected to real-life ethics and philosophy.

Yes. In fact, they're based on the Ten Commandments. You know, the laws from that "hypocritical several-thousand-year-old book of fiction for advice."

...ask the best way to round up people that think for themselves.

And that would be you, of course, the original free thinker. How you flatter yourself!

You know we're just all sitting here, waiting for a noble missionary to bring the Lord back into our miserable, failed lives. Get to it!

It's obvious you have never read the Bible, and know nothing about missinary work. Like all liberals, you view people of faith as empty-headed, Bible-thumping morons who base their lives on silly lies.

A stereotypical viewpoint if ever there was one!

But somehow, you still see yourself as a "free thinker."

Typical liberal.

The Retropolitan said...

Shush, Spysmasher. If you think all ethical rules are based on the Ten Commandments, you're mistaken. Actually, this may come as a shock -- there was a time before the Bible. I'm not even kidding about this. And they had rules, too!

And I'm not the original free thinker. There are many of us, and we take in ideas and think about them and parse them and come to conclusions about them. But some people -- most people, likely -- live another way, accepting not only many things that people tell them, but most things. It's over-credulity. It's dangerous, and simple-minded.

Actually, I have read the Bible. And yes, I think that people that base their actions on the Bible -- solely on what someone told them that they HAVE to do -- are unfortunately simple-minded about faith. They're not all morons, to be certain, but misguided and lied to, misled at best.

Then again, the Bible says that it's right -- so it must be, no?

spysmasher said...

RETROPOLITAN WROTE: “Hush, Spysmasher. If you think all ethical rules are based on the Ten Commandments, you're mistaken.

Hush? As in, “Shut up if you don’t agree with me?” As in “all liberals are right and all conservatives should not only shut up, but should (as one would address a child), "hush"? Oops, your prejudice is showing right off the bat! More of your “free thinking,” I guess.

Actually, if you don't know that the country we live in bases its ethical rules on the Ten Commandments, you're either uneducated or willfully ignorant. I can see how, as an atheist, you'd WANT them to be based on ANYTHING else, even if you have to go back 4,000 years. But still, the fact remains that the country we live in bases its ethical rules on the Ten Commandments. That’s why they hang in the Supreme Court.

And I'm not the original free thinker. There are many of us, and we take in ideas and think about them and parse them and come to conclusions about them. But some people -- most people, likely -- live another way, accepting not only many things that people tell them, but most things. It's over-credulity. It's dangerous, and simple-minded.

By “free thinkers,” you seem to mean “liberals,” and by “other people,” of course, you mean conservatives. So in your world, all liberals are wonderful, thoughtful people, and all conservatives are dangerous, simple-minded morons. What incredible “free thinking”!

Actually, I have read the Bible. And yes, I think that people that base their actions on the Bible -- solely on what someone told them that they HAVE to do -- are unfortunately simple-minded about faith. They're not all morons, to be certain, but misguided and lied to, misled at best.

So those who believe in the Bible aren’t exactly morons, they’re “only” misguided. That is SO generous of you! They try to live their lives according to the same moral code you do, the one found in the Ten Commandments, but still-- they’re misguided.

Obviously, the billions throughout history who have revered the Bible are all wrong, and YOU are right. YOU say that you’re right -- so it must be, no?

You’re an atheist who follows God’s law and doesn’t know it, and a free thinker who slavishly spouts liberal talking points and calls them free thought. The fact that you don’t see the total hypocrisy here does not surprise me.

After all, you’re an atheist, but you still can't answer one simple question: If there’s no God, where did everything come from?

The Retropolitan said...

Hush? As in, “Shut up if you don’t agree with me?” As in “all liberals are right and all conservatives should not only shut up, but should (as one would address a child), "hush"? Oops, your prejudice is showing right off the bat! More of your “free thinking,” I guess.

Well, when I said "hush," I just meant to stay calm. You're more than welcome to say whatever you want, provided SF allows. That's the power of the INTERNET. You're also putting words into my mouth, making this about "liberal" versus "conservative." This conversation is about religion, which oddly enough does span beyond that. There are plenty of religious libs and atheist conservatives out there. The other way around is more likely, but I digress.

Actually, if you don't know that the country we live in bases its ethical rules on the Ten Commandments, you're either uneducated or willfully ignorant. I can see how, as an atheist, you'd WANT them to be based on ANYTHING else, even if you have to go back 4,000 years. But still, the fact remains that the country we live in bases its ethical rules on the Ten Commandments. That’s why they hang in the Supreme Court.

Well, let's look at the ten commandments:

1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
5. Thou shalt not kill.
6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7. Thou shalt not steal.
8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

The ten vary a bit from religion to religion, but that's the basic set (Catholic set, at least.)

One through three are very religion specific. In fact, they apply solely to religion. Numbers nine and ten are generally good ideas, but I could argue that ten goes against capitalism, and perhaps human nature in general. Four through eight, well... these are simply good advice. Period. I seriously hope that this list is not the only thing that's keeping you from murdering, lying, stealing, and betrayal. They are practical, common sense rules that when followed benefit the community and society. These ideas were around far longer than the ten commandments, and with a little research I might be able to make a case for being part of a tribal instinct. Things just work better for everyone when you don't kill indiscriminately, steal other people's stuff, betray your loved ones, or lie all the time.

The country's ethical rules are based on practical ideas that stem from things that the commandments are also based on. The big ten just had a couple of extraneous bits tossed in for the flock.

By “free thinkers,” you seem to mean “liberals,” and by “other people,” of course, you mean conservatives. So in your world, all liberals are wonderful, thoughtful people, and all conservatives are dangerous, simple-minded morons. What incredible “free thinking”!

Again, I didn't say that. Is it that hard to believe that this isn't an "us or them" issue? There are conservatives that I admire, intelligent ones. Some of them are funny. Some liberals are complete nutcases, loony conspiracy theorists. I'm just not fond of the bunch currently in power, which happen to be conservatives, which happen to not hold many of the same values that I have. Plus, I make a lot of simple-minded jokes. But they're... jokes. Would it make you feel better if I said something about Gore inventing the internet?


So those who believe in the Bible aren’t exactly morons, they’re “only” misguided. That is SO generous of you! They try to live their lives according to the same moral code you do, the one found in the Ten Commandments, but still-- they’re misguided.


Misguided -- yes. Not that they're not living ethical lives. But to spend your life believing in a book because other people told you to because the book says you should, the majority never studying it or its hypocracies, picking and choosing passages to cover their own biases and needs...? Yes, misguided. Almost everyone I know is religious, and almost no one I know can explain what they believe in past the most shallow, superficial soundbites. The book, as a work of divine will, is unsubstantiated, and outright discredited in parts. To live your life ethically is good; to believe something unquestioningly because people told you to is misguided.

Obviously, the billions throughout history who have revered the Bible are all wrong, and YOU are right. YOU say that you’re right -- so it must be, no?

So what you're saying is that because a ton of people thought one thing, the minority is wrong? Wow, McDonald's must be the greatest food EVER. And slavery was swell.

I say that I think about things. I look things up. I come to conclusions when things don't sit well with me. I look for evidence, and make decisions based on that. There might be a God, but there's not substantial reason for me to believe in one. I'm wrong sometimes, and I'm willing -- with the proper evidence, of course -- to change my position. That's the difference: I am not committed to dogma, which the Church demands. I suggest that people should spend less time listening and nodding, and more time thinking. They may come to their own conclusions, and the day when they come to a clearer one than me, I'm happy to re-evaluate my positions.


You’re an atheist who follows God’s law and doesn’t know it, and a free thinker who slavishly spouts liberal talking points and calls them free thought. The fact that you don’t see the total hypocrisy here does not surprise me.


I'm not following God's law, and what liberal talking points am I slavishly spewing? Most liberals are not atheists, for one, and if you fail to see that the numerous political scandals on the right side of the aisle mean something, I simply don't know what to tell you.

Just as a reminder: ATHEIST DOES NOT EQUAL LIBERAL. LIBERAL DOES NOT EQUAL ATHEIST. You're getting close to mixing arguments, here.


After all, you’re an atheist, but you still can't answer one simple question: If there’s no God, where did everything come from?


OH MY -- You're right. You're so right. That's just... just ignore everything else I said in this post. PRAISE ALLAH YAHWEH JESUS!

Just kidding! Well, if there's no God, maybe... maybe it was all just here. There was a recent theory published about how the universe might just be a series of successive big bangs, continually starting and restarting. There doesn't have to be anyone behind the universe. Who's to say that it wasn't always here? It might have just appeared one day, as a fluke of time and space. If you're suggesting that the universe is so complex as to require a creator to be behind it, wouldn't that necessarily follow that if the even more complex creator needed a creator? If you want to fairly follow that logic, anyway. If you want to say God created the universe, I can say that my desk chair created the universe, and we'd have equal proof. At least I'm honest about making things up.

I'm convinced that science will continue to progress and find answers, and if there's really a God, that'll be the only way to find him. Certainly not because of some musty book.

spysmasher said...

Retropolitian said: (Ethics) were around far longer than the Ten Commandments... the country's ethical rules are based on practical ideas that stem from things that the commandments are also based on.

Oh, Retropolitian -- hush! And of course, just like you, I don’t say that in a demeaning or condescending way “at all.” The fact is this: The founders of this country made it quite clear that the ethical basis for this country law was THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

The origin of and influences on the Commandments are not relevant here. The founding fathers called us one nation UNDER GOD. Ever see that “misleading” phrase on money? Trying to explain away this fact with irrelevant digressions and deceptions is a huge waste of time. Why do you bother?

Similiarly, trying to portray the Ten Commandments as “copycat” rules is ridiculous, and a transparent attempt to remove God from the equation. You’ll accept ANY explanation of the Commandments, except the one that involves God. But unfortunately (for you), divorcing God from the Ten Commandments is quite impossible, and claiming that the Ten Commandments aren’t the basis of our laws is simply ignorant.

You say “... to spend your life believing in a book because other people told you to because the book says you should, the majority never studying it or its hypocracies, picking and choosing passages to cover their own biases and needs...? Yes, misguided. The book, as a work of divine will, is unsubstantiated, and outright discredited in parts.”

Really? I’d be interested to know exactly what those “parts” were, and exactly how they have been “discredited.” Please site the chapter and verse, and tell me WHO has “discredited” them and HOW. It’s one thing to throw out smear charges, as you liberals love to do, it’s another to back them up.

Yes, I said LIBERALS, of which you ARE one. You will never in a million years find any conservative who speaks as disrespectfully as you do of God and the creation. Calling the Bible a “hypocritical several-thousand-year-old book of fiction,” which you did, tells us what you REALLY believe. The rest of your endless rationalizations are simply that -- rationalizations.

You say, “I think about things. I look things up. I come to conclusions when things don't sit well with me. I look for evidence, and make decisions based on that. There might be a God, but there's not substantial reason for me to believe in one.”

When you see a house, you know someone built it. When you see a road, you know someone made it. When you see a person, you know someone gave birth to them. But strangely, despite all your extremely deep “free thoughts,” you look at he universe and see NO REASON AT ALL to think someone created it. “Maybe it was all just here,” is your only explanation. I think the utter foolishness of this position speaks for itself.

Finally, posing as an innocent babe in the woods, you ask What liberal talking points am I slavishly spewing?

Oh gee, silly me, I must have been “misled” ... BY YOUR OWN WORDS! You DID tell me “write a letter to your favorite conservative senator to ask the best way to round up people that think for themselves.” YOU wrote that.

In other words, conservatives want to “round up” the opposition” (like Nazis?) and also basically CAN’T think for themselves, and hate anyone who “can.” A totally liberal viewpoint, and equally liberal talking points -- both yours. It’s silly to deny that you wrote that, since we can all just scroll up and read these very comments from you. Still, you tried to do just that, and pose as “Mr. Objective Free Thinker.” It’s clear from your comments, however, that you ARE a liberal. And not a particularly honest one.

You said “God is a joke to me, called the Bible is “a hypocritical several-thousand-year-old book of fiction. You said, “Science will continue to progress and find answers, and if there's really a God, that'll be the only way to find him. Certainly not because of some musty book.”

But guess what -- I myself found God exactly because of that “musty book.” So did countless BILLIONS of others! You dismiss these billions with a wave of your hand, saying “Because a ton of people thought one thing, the minority is wrong? Wow, McDonald's must be the greatest food EVER. And slavery was swell.”

Can we stop the argumentative nonsense? Or, failing that, please inform the billions throughout history who believed in the Bible that their numbers don’t matter because you like to torture logic and ignore facts. Logic dictates that if something is held as sacred by countless billions throughout history, it should at the VERY LEAST be given the benefit of the doubt, not smeared as “fiction” and dismissed as useless.

And you need to redo your math. The numbers of those involved in both McDonalds and slavery combined do not come CLOSE to the numbers of those who believe in the Bible, a book that has survived many thousands of years, and remained the number one bestseller for as long as the printing press has existed. Slavery has long been outlawed, and McDonalds has another 4,000 years or so to go before equaling the Bible’s longevity. When examined with TRUE free thought, even your ridiculous comparisons just fall apart at the seams. Why?

Here’s the problem, Mr. free thinker: You simply cannot accept the fact that a person could read the Bible and try to live by its rules and worship Jesus and God WITHOUT being either tricked, misled or conned. For you, the whole Bible is a big con job, and for the life of you, you simply cannot IMAGINE how anyone could POSSIBLY have a position that differs from your own! If they do, they MUST have been tricked, because a position that differs from your own is automatically wrong.

This is not free thinking. This is liberal myopia at its worst: You are a Godless liberal posing as an objective free thinker to win an argument with a stranger. How sad!

The Retropolitan said...

Well, Spysmasher, I just wanted say that I won't have time to comment for a little while. It's clear (and reasonable) that some of the rebuttals will take some research and time, which I'll gladly do. But not this weekend.

spysmasher said...

Research? OK, but trust me -- McDonalds has really NOT been around as long as the Bible.

spysmasher said...

It's now May 23.

Guess I'm going to have a looooong wait while you complete your "research."

spysmasher said...

May 26th now...

Still waiting...